I: Do you think the numbers that were put in prison then because of those crimes would be in the thousands?
PL: I don’t think there are all that many of them. If you have a riot in the detention camp with something like ten thousand people, it isn’t that easy to identify ‘this’ person is the one who committed ‘this’ crime, given the circumstances to a sufficient degree that would prove in a court of Hong Kong under common law jurisdiction that there is no conceivable doubt that this person is guilty of a crime.
I: Were there any consequences for those who caused riots in the detention centres?
PL: Other than any criminal investigation of corruption, none.
I: So maybe that’s why they kept on rioting?
PL: But, this is the system in Hong Kong. We don’t punish people because we don’t like them. If they commit a crime, they are investigated and we prosecute them. But that’s about all. There’s no question of resorting to tactics which may happen in other places like restricting their food, medicine etc. That’s not done in Hong Kong.
I: Last question, how did the Government deal with the pressure from taxpayers?
PL: [Sighs] Well, I don’t really know what the answer was. Yes, it was difficult. We got pounded in the legislation from time to time, especially when I was Head of Security. Because I was the one who appeared in the Legislative Council and being questioned. We just had to do the best we can. I think to be fair to the Legislative Council Members themselves, they are just like most representative institutions and they do make a song and dance, especially because the constituents are unhappy with the way certain things are happening. They also realise that at the end of the day, there is not a lot that we can do about it. They know you can’t send them back if Vietnam doesn’t accept them. So it takes time, and money to send them back.
You can’t just dump them, or push them into a boat and send them out to sea. You have to fly them in a Boeing aircraft back to Hanoi. After all, Hong Kong is a civilised and respectable place. We do have certain ethics and certain standards that we subscribe to. So everyone was slinging mud at us verbally. But we all understood that at the end, we just carried on doing it. But then of course, in political terms from time to time, you will have to give them an opportunity to let off steam. Very occasionally, we were asked by International Human Rights Organisations and Groups and interested NGO’s why we couldn’t let them out and give them a job? That is a humane way. All the benefits of living in a civilised society. We can’t do that because of the pressure of the legislation, but within the legislation, we could still treat them humanely.
We knew of course that in a detention camp situation, they do not enjoy the freedom that most ordinary citizens would expect. But they are not citizens of Hong Kong, and they can enjoy the freedoms of a citizenship in Vietnam if they are prepared to go back at any time. And they will be sent back, when the Vietnamese Government is prepared to accept them. But until that is done, there is no way we can let them out. The community won’t accept it. And you could end up with a very nasty riot in Hong Kong if you do that.
I: What did the whole experience, in retrospect, mean to you?
PL: We did a good thing. It was difficult and sometimes bloody annoying especially when they turned nasty. But it was a good thing because over the years you ask yourself, especially with the initial batch that came through the Hong Kong system – close to 100 000 – the bulk of them were regarded as refugees. Where are they now? All over the world. Most of them, you never heard they had great difficulties. You assume, I hope, that they have all established new lives, they have integrated into society and they may be teachers, doctors, nurses, businessmen, technicians etc., doing useful jobs for humanity. They have their own family, their children and grandchildren. Yet, they came through Hong Kong and what we did was let them have the opportunity to make a new life elsewhere. Because the alternative for most of them would have been death by drowning in the South China Sea.
So yes, we did a good thing. I’m pretty sure of this. And interesting anecdote, if you like, because we were so busy at the time, virtually the moment that I was called to report back to the Security Branch in the middle of July – we were all very busy doing what we needed to do. So, the head of the Government at the time didn’t get around to seeing me until about a month afterwards. And they usually try to see their Senior staff at least once. And he said, ‘look, what we’re asking you to do with the Vietnamese refugees is not the best outcome [perceived] by most people in Hong Kong. Do you have a conscience problem, because if you do, you better find something else’? I said I didn’t have a conscience problem. I am a Catholic and whatever the rights and wrings of the politics of it, I don’t see a conscionable problem of saving people from the risk of death by drowning. So, there you go.